Internet Info 1993/Internet Info CD-ROM (Walnut Creek) (1993).iso/answers/rec/boats-faq/part2

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From: [e-mail] (John F. Hughes)
Subject: rec.boats Frequently Asked Questions (Part 2 of 4)
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Archive-name: boats-faq/part2

(wh)

Address: US  Sailing Box  209, Goat  Island Marina  Newport, RI
02840 [phone] Fax: [phone]


3.7 Where can I find out about collegiate sailing?

US Sailing publishes a college sailing directory, available for
7 from the address above. (sc)


3.8 What about keels?

Courtesy of Matt Pedersen:

(Definitions used in this discussion: length refers to the fore
and aft length  of the keel,  depth refers to  how far the keel
sticks into the water, width is side/side width)

General discussion of Keels:

Keels help you sail  in a straight line.  They are also a great
place to put a bilge, bilge pump, and tankage. What you want is
a keel that is very narrow  in width when going to weather, and
a little  fatter going  downwind. I don't  know how  to make my
keel do this, but  when I do figure it  out you'll be the first
to know. Narrow width keels  also stall out (lose their lifting
ability) at lower  speeds when compared to  a fatter keel. This
is a negative.

Longer keels are harder to knock off course than shorter keels.
Longer  keels are  harder to  put back  on course  than shorter
keels.  Longer  keels  have more  wetted  surface  than shorter
keels, which hurts light air performance.

Deeper keels go  to windward better  than shallow keels. Deeper
keels  get the  ballast  lower in  the  boat, which  helps sail
carrying  ability. Deeper  keels  find the  bottom  sooner than
shallow keels.

About wing keels:

Winged keels have a lot more weight down low which dramatically
increases the stability they provide. The wings supposedly help
hydrodynamics.  I  don't think  it's  all that  great.  They do
increase draft a  little going to weather  (the wing hangs down
lower as  you heel).  I'm not real  convinced that  a wing keel
when heeled and slightly  deeper, but with a  right angle in it
is more  efficient at  getting lift  than a  standard fin. Wing
keels are good  at catching kelp, or  anything else floating in
the water. They  also stick in  the mud better,  if that's what
you want. To  be fair they are  a way to get  shoal draft and a
little stiffness too.

Bulb Keels:

These are basically  a keel with  a big torpedo  shaped blob of
lead at the bottom. They are not more efficient than a straight
fin. They  do get  more weight  down low,  which helps  in sail
carrying ability.

Scheel keels:

Scheel keels are kind of like  bulbs at the bottom of the keel,
but   they  look  cooler.   They  may  have  some  hydrodynamic
improvement over a straight fin, I don't know. They get ballast
way down low. It's interesting that many designers use a Scheel
keel instead  of a wing  keel, even  though they have  to pay a
royalty on it. That says something about how difficult it is to
design a truly good wing keel.  By the way Henry Scheel designs
great looking boats.

Recent history of keel design:

Now if you look at the design  of fin keels over the years, you
will see a  great deal of  theory being applied  to get you the
fastest shape  possible. Let's  see, there  was the  swept back
``Sharks fin" of the early  seventies. It looks fast, therefore
it must be fast.  They were ``proven" to  be slow, so you don't
see  them much  anymore. However,  David Pedrick  (who designed
Dennis Conner's Stars and Stripes) has resurrected them for the
latest Freedom boats. Gee, maybe they are fast after all.

Then  there  was  the  ``Peterson"  fin.  Straight  leading and
trailing edges.  High aspect ratio.  Still pretty  fast, but it
doesn't put most of its weight down low, where it does the most
good. But then the IOR rule really didn't care about that.

Then there was the winged keel  of the eighties. They are great
on big tubby meter  boats with draft limited  by some rule, and
you want a  lot of weight down  low (like 60+ %  of the boat is
ballast). You can do that by  either increasing the size of the
bulb/blob at the bottom of the keel, or you can spend thousands
on tank testing your  wings, get the weight  down low with them
instead, and psych out your competition at the same time.

Today the latest theory has  keels of the semi-elliptical form,
where you have the leading edge straight, and the trailing edge
gently curved. Except  for some of  Bruce Farr's designs, which
have a gently curved leading edge and straight aft edge. Wait a
minute, that doesn't fit the theory! Farr's boats don't seem to
notice that they don't fit  the latest theory though. They just
leave everybody else behind them  and go to the winners circle.
They  are using  bulbs today  instead of  wings on  the hottest
racing boats, to get more stability with less total weight...


3.9 Sailing simulators?

There are  Posey simulators as  well as  nav packages, hardware
and  software  in  Dave  and  Judy  Crane's  Nautical Computing
catalog, available from DF Crane Associates, 2535 Kettner Blvd;
PO Box 87531, San Diego CA 92138-7531 Phone [phone].

Dennis Posey  also sells  his collection  of race  and cruising
simulators  by  direct  mail  from  Posey  Yacht  Designs,  101
Parmelee Rd., Haddam,  CT 06438 or 203/345-2685.  He has a half
dozen different versions for different levels and interests, PC
and Mac. (rs2)


3.10 Chartering and learn-to-sail schools

In the  US, various  people on  the net  have spoken  highly of
Womanship (and one of their  instructors is a regular reader, I
believe). In the Virgin Islands, the general summary of charter
operations  seems to  be  that you  get  what you  pay for--the
lower-budget operations have less-well-maintained boats.

Can one become  competent for a bareboat  charter in two weeks?
You   may  be   able  to  do  so   (according  to  the  Charter
operation---i.e., they may let you charter a boat), but I would
not count on it. (jfh)


3.11   Formula  for  hull  speed   based  on  length,  and  its
limitations

A displacement-hull boat whose waterline has length L (in feet)
will have a ``hull speed'' that  is K SQRT(L) knots, where K is
a  number  between  about 1.2  and  1.4  for  most conventional
cruising hulls.  Small planing  dinghies, large  planing sleds,
scows, and  other designs  (including catamarans)  will not fit
well into  this formula, so  you should ignore  it. The formula
assumes a lot of things, but all in all it does pretty well for
figuring whether your  Bristol 40 will keep  up with a Catalina
30 in moderate winds (or vice versa).

The hull speed,  by the way,  can loosely be  thought of as the
speed at which  the boat, in  order to go  faster, has to start
``climbing  up'' over  its  bow wave,  which  takes a  lot more
power. (jfh)


3.12 Sailing in other countries

Some  countries  require  a sailing  license.  Check  with your
embassy. Many countries, like the US, do not.

Various rec.boaters  have posted  saying ``I'm  going to  be in
Country XXX for two  weeks and would love  to sail with someone
on such-and-such  a date,''  and have  found themselves  with a
ride. The group's  general attitude towards  this sort of thing
seems to be ``supportive.''

In Australia, the Monash U. Sailing Club (or its president) can
be reached at [e-mail].



Chapter 4

Powerboating stuff


4.1 What is better? An I/O or an outboard? What's cheaper?

[ Not yet written  ] Kevin Weber reports  that ``The May (1993)
issue  of Boating  has  a very  good  article comparing  OBs to
IOs.''


4.2 Is the Bayliner a good boat? The price is great...

This is opinion  only. The Bayliner  is weakly constructed when
compared to  other boats of  similar size  and purpose. Despite
this, they seem  to get a  lot of use.  I would strongly advise
you to ask  youself the question  ``If/when I slip  and fall in
this boat  and hit something,  will that thing  break?'' If the
answer is ``Yes,'' then you should  be sure to operate the boat
in a manner that ensures that  you will never slip and fall, or
you should replace/reinforce the thing. (jfh)


4.3 Are Doel Fins a good thing?

A great many people  report improved time-to-plane. Some report
slightly  reduced top-end  speeds. Everyone  seems to  say that
installing one  may void  your warranty,  and you  should check
this   out  for  your  particular  motor.  Many  people  report
installing  and  then  removing  fins,  finding  that  handling
suffered enough that they preferred the old way. (jfh)


4.4 What is a  Hole Shot? Will a Stainless  prop add to my high
end speed?

I  am  told  that a  hole  shot  is the  speed  with  which one
initially accelerates onto a plane,  and that a stainless prop,
although more expensive, will  in fact add a  bit to top speed.
(jfh)


4.5 Is VRO a good idea?

VRO appears to be a fine  idea, but also seems to be risk-prone
(if it fails, your engine is shot) and not yet robust---the net
has  seen several  reports  of failures.  Several  netters have
suggested disabling VRO and going  to standard mix in the fuel.
(jfh)


4.6 What's a good first powerboat?

(Courtesy of Dave Kinzer)

Powerboats  differ from  sailboats  in that  sailors  use their
boats simply to sail, but  most powerboaters use their boats to
do  something else  such as  waterskiing and  fishing ,  so the
``best'' first boat could differ greatly from person to person.
Therefore,  you  should feel  free  to disregard  any  piece of
advice in this  section as it  might not be  applicable to your
specific situation.

To begin with, you  should look at the  types of boats that are
popular in your area for the activities you plan. Boats that do
not work well in  a region usually don't  sell in great number,
so  you can  learn  by other  people's  mistakes here.  Talk to
owners to find what they like  and dislike in their boats. This
will help  you get  an eye  for details  that will  count after
time.

Second, think small. A smaller boat is easier to muscle around,
and and less likely to  be damaged severely during the learning
process. It will cost  less, and if for  some reason you end up
not liking  the actuality  of ownership  (think of  burning 100
dollar  bills  for  fun,)  the  loss  will  be  minimized. I'll
contradict myself  here and  say get  one size  bigger than the
smallest  suitable  boat. This  will  give you  some  more time
before outgrowing it.  Keep in mind  your vehicle's capacity to
trailer it.

Third, buy used. There is a  lot of argument on this point, and
I  respect the  other point  of  view, so  I will  present both
sides. With a  new boat you  have a warranty  to protect you in
the event something goes wrong. If  you have a good dealer, any
problems will be resolved promptly, and you will be back on the
water with little or  no out-of- pocket expense.  If you have a
bad dealer, your boat will sit at the back of the queue for the
boating season while the paying customers get their boats fixed
(I know someone  this happened to.)  Buying a boat  a few years
old  will  save you  a  bunch of  money  that can  be  used for
repairs, if needed.  Have a mechanic check  out the boat before
you buy to minimize  the chance of having  to use that money. A
used boat will  probably have some  equipment already installed
(like radios, depth  or fishfinders, etc.)  that you would have
to buy for a new boat. Finally, when you scrape your boat while
learning near a dock, you won't have to wince as hard.

I have managed to get this  far without giving any specifics on
what to buy. My OPINION follows, with some thoughts as to why I
believe them. Start with a boat about 3 years old. A newer boat
will depreciate  more, an older  one may have  problems that it
takes an expert to find. This  is also about the time the first
owner has discovered he either  doesn't like this enough, or it
is time  to get a  3 foot longer  boat. A good  length would be
16-18 feet. This is big enough to comfortably have some friends
on,  yet  small enough  that  you  do not  need  a  special tow
vehicle. I  recommend a single  outboard or  I/O (stern) drive.
Two engines aren't  needed for this length,  and you don't want
the expense  to begin  with. There  are arguments  all over the
place  on I/O  vs.  outboard; I  suggest  you go  with  what is
popular in your  area, for parts  and service availability. The
important  thing is  that  they handle  the  same in  low speed
maneuvering. Inboards,  V-Drives and  jet-drives do  some funny
things (which  are predictable,  once you  know them)  that are
better left for learning later.  If you are planning on skiing,
get enough horsepower. For an I/O  drive, this means a V6. Your
towing  vehicle  capacity  could decide  the  I/O  vs. outboard
question. The outboard will  need slightly less horsepower, and
will be considerably lighter.

Last, but not least, sign up for a boating safety course. There
are enough  dimwits out there  already, you don't  need to make
the situation worse. It is not  enough to say that you won't do
anything stupid since you don't know what the stupid things are
yet. (dk1)


4.7 Can I put unleaded gas in an old outboard?

Assumining the  outboard is a  two-stroke, Yes. In  fact, it is
prefered. Lead  is in fuel  primarily to  lubricate the exhaust
valve and valve seat  in a 4 stroke  engine. The two-stroke has
no such valve or seat and  so requires no such lubrication. The
lead   compound   also  served  to   prevent  pre-ignition,  or
``knocking" or ``pinging''.  This has long  since been resolved
in unleaded fuel and so is not an issue.

Lead in  fuel causes  fouling of the  spark plugs.  No lead, no
lead fouling. (Though oil fouling may still be a problem.)

Leaded fuel is only available  in ``regular'' (at least here in
the Northwest  USA). Higher compression  outboards that require
higher octane fuel often have problems with the leaded fuel now
available. Unleaded comes in ``super'', or high octane ratings.
This is the recommended fuel.

The above information was  obtained from a phone-interview with
a long-time outboard mechanic  at Chic's Outboard Service; 2043
SE 50th; Portland, OR;  [phone], and has been paraphrased
by R.C. Faltersack.



Chapter 5

General Information


5.1 Addresses and numbers for suppliers

M & E Marine 800 541-6501: Inexpensive; recent reports indicate
a  dedication  to  good  service,  and  their  sailing hardware
section is now excellent. In-store service said to be good, and
a good discount section in at least one store. (jfh)

Bacon's (Annapolis  area): on West  St. about a  15 minute walk
from  City  Dock.  They have  everything,  new  and  used, from
clothing to  winches, stoves, line,  you get  the picture. They
are also  a national  sail exchange.  I think  they maintain an
inventory of about  1,200 sails, again  some newer than others.
(cr)

BOAT/US:   1-800-937-BOAT  (orders);  1-800-937-9307  (customer
service).  Another user  says:  They offer  their  lowest price
policy  on anything.  We  recently wanted  to  purchase rafting
cushions. Our local E & B store didn't have the size we wanted.
They did have the lowest  catalog price around. They would have
special ordered  them but I  wanted to call  BOAT/US first even
though they were 8.00 higher. I called BOAT/US, told them the E
&  B price,  and they  gave us  that  price, less  10 %  of the
difference. We didn't  have to pay sales  tax, and the shipping
was much less.  The only ``catch''  is that the  prices must be
the regular  catalog price,  not a  sale price.  The other good
thing I have noticed about BOAT/US is that they really have low
shipping weights.  For the same  cushions above,  BOAT/US had a
shipping wt. of 6 lbs  each. E & B listed  the weight at 15 lbs
each. A BIG  difference when you  have to pay  the shipping. If
you order by 1pm  they ship out UPS that  same day. I called on
Thursday  10  am  and  my  cushions  were  at  my  house Friday
afternoon.

Worton Creek Marina (upper  chesapeake) has an excellent Marine
store and parts dept. Located  midway between the Annapolis Bay
Bridge  and the  C &  D canel.  Great  if you  run out  of food
(frozen or fresh) or  need a spare part  or have a breakdown of
one sort of  another. Very accommodating  and prices are pretty
good.

South  Coast Marine  Supply,  Larchmont NY:  Much  like M  & E.
Cheaper prices on a few things.(jfh)

Post   Marine  Supply  (1-800-YACHTER);   111  Cedar  St.,  New
Rochelle,  NY  10801.  Lowest  price  in  the Larchmont/Rye/New
Rochelle  area on  bottom  paint when  I  looked around,  but I
wouldn't buy anything from them if I didn't have to. The sleazy
cover photo  on their  catalog might not  be enough  to put you
off, but the rotten customer relations reported by at least one
person suggest that you're better off going to West Marine (for
mail order),  which will match  prices, and which  has the best
customer  relations on  earth, or  Defender  (if you're  in the
area), which  is nearby and  treats its  customers pretty well,
too, at least the walk-in variety.(jfh)

The Rigging Company in  Portsmouth, RI, 1-800-322-1525: Unknown
to me, but recommended by  Roy Smith. They do sailboat rigging.
See below.(rs)

Boat/US  880  So.  Pickett  St.,  Alexandria,  VA  22304  (800)
937-2628;[phone]; Will meet other's advertised prices on
anchors. I don't  know about other things.  It's where I bought
my 35  lb CQR (ouch!).  Their cordage is  not particularly good
quality,  according to  a friend  who  recently checked  it out
while looking for anchor rode.(jfh)

E  &  B  Marine: 800  533-5007  *Good*  prices  on electronics,
especially when they are on sale. Limited selection of sailboat
hardware,  but their  in-store  supply of  fasteners  is pretty
good--if you need a 4" x 5/16" stainless bolt, and a nylock nut
to go on it, they probably  have it. If you want cordage, their
pre-cut  lengths  are  a  pretty  good  deal.  Their  supply is
otherwise limited. Rapidly  going out of  the sailboat hardware
business,  resulting  in  some incredible  sale  prices  in the
Providence store at least. This is  also the place to get those
mermaid-shaped fenders and  signal-flag glasses, if  you go for
that sort of stuff.(jfh)

Jamestown  Distributors, (800)  423-0300. Excellent  source for
marine  hardware. Good  place to  look  for stainless  steel or
bronze  fasteners. As  one rec.boat-er  said ``I  can't imagine
starting  a boatbuilding  project without  a call  to Jamestown
Marine.''

West Marine (1-800-538-0775), 500 Westridge Drive, PO Box 1020,
Watsonville,  CA, 95077,  : Their  normal  catalog is  a pretty
informative thing. Their master catalog is something that every
sailor should  read. You  know how  you sometimes  say "Jeez, I
really need the 6  1/2 foot oars, but they  only show 5' and 6'
in the catalog."? In the Master  Catalog, they show it all. And
the  little ``West  Advisor'' sections  are  in there  as well.
Prices: higher than other  discount places, but not full-price.
I admit that  I sometimes use  their catalog to  decide what to
get, then look for it elsewhere. Usually not--I appreciate what
they do so much that I  pay the slightly higher prices in hopes
of  keeping  them  in  business.  When  they  say  that they're
shipping  today, they  are telling  the  truth. News  Flash: in
April 1991 I spoke  to someone at West who  told me they have a
price-matching  policy. Now  there's no  reason to  go anywhere
else.  They  print  their catalog  on  glossy  paper,  which is
environmentally bad,  but they  don't use  peanuts for shipping
any more, which is good.(jfh)

Goldberg's Marine (1-800-BOATING): Identical to E & B Marine.

Overton's  (800  334-6541):  111  Red  Banks  Rd.  P.O.Box 8228
Greenville, N.C. 27835 for technical assitance ask for ext. 286

They  carry  Pleasurecraft  and  Indmar  Engines,  and  a  wide
selection of  waterski gear.  Lots of  bathing suit  ads in the
last 20 pages of the catalog.

Defender  Marine (1-914-632-3001;  1-800-628-8225  New Rochelle
NY):  Great prices,  good  selection, and  reasonable warranty.
Badly  organized catalog,  printed on  newsprint: nice  ofr the
environment, but harder  to read. Also,  they tend to  be a bit
slow. Several  netters (jfh, gb1)  have had  horrible luck with
their mail-order  business, having  the wrong  items of damaged
items shipped, and then being yelled  at when we wanted to send
them back.  Basically, I'll never  mail order  from them again.
They do  have a  rigging service,  but they  send stuff  off to
Florida to be done (perhaps to Johnson Sails???).

Brewer's  Hardware,  161  E  Boston  Post  Rd,  in  Mamaranack,
914-698-3232. You can usually get things from Defender cheaper,
but  Brewers  has  a  remarkable  selection  of  hardware (like
fasteners) and  hardware (like  Harken stuff).  They're pricey,
but the stuff is there.(jfh)

Shoreway    Marine,  Highway   73,   Berlin,  NJ   08009.  Call
1-800-543-5408     for   ordering   and   product   information
(609-768-8102 in NJ). This is what Larry and Irwin Goldberg did
after  they sold  out  to E  &  B. Well  organised  and printed
catalog on recyclable newsprint  type paper. Powerboat oriented
with little of  interest specifically to  sailboaters but great
prices on electronics and other common use items. (wms).

Marine  Exchange,  in  Peabody, MA.  According  to  one netter,
``They sell both  new and used equipment  and will also special
order items for you. They also have a complete rigging service.
The  owner  is  Arlene  and  she  is  far  and  away  the  most
knowledgeable  person  I  have  ever  met  in  the  boat supply
business.  She can  help you  figure  out what  you need  for a
project and  where to  find it.  She can  get it  for you  at a
discount, and  if she can't  get it  for you, she  can tell you
where else to  find it. Not only  has she found  us a number of
obscure items  at substantial savings,  but she's  also told us
where to find netting (at  fishing supply houses; it's cheapest
there); where to get  the stern swim ladder  welded; who in the
area makes  custom size, rigid  holding tanks,  etc., etc. They
have hundreds of  boating manufacturers catalogs  and will look
up  items,  prices,  specifications for  you.  They're  a great
outfit to deal with.''

Hamilton Marine, Searsport, Maine. ``Good prices, mail order.''
(ph)

Marine Center, 1150 Fairview Ave  North (retail outlet); PO Box
9968,  Seattle WA  98109 (800  242 6357)  ``They are  a catalog
company in Seattle that I have  dealt with a dozen or so times.
Prices lower  than local  retail; 180  page annual  catalog + 2
sale catalogs per year. General marine supply: electronic, sail
and  power  equip.  Outstanding  selection  of  small specialty
stuff: switches, lamps, lifeline stantions to name items I have
bought.

Fawcett Boat Supplies,  110 Compromise Street.  [phone].
They have almost  everything in stock,  and can locate anything
else. Unfortunately, they are  not cheap. Their self-proclaimed
nickname is "Tiffany's on the Severn.'' (ag)

Signet Marine: Several people have posted requests recently for
information on parts and service for Signet Marine instruments.
Signet Marine went  out of business a  few months ago. However,
Signet has  been "reconstituted" under  new ownership recently.
Though they  are not manufacturing  new products  yet, they are
servicing and supplying parts. They've been very helpful for me
in servicing and parts for a Smart Pak system. (mt)

You can contact them at:

Signet  Marine Service  505 Van  Ness  Ave. Torrance,  CA 90501
[phone]

Nilcoptra  3 Marine  Road; Hoylake,  Wirral; Cheshire  L47 2AS;
United Kingdom; tel. [phone] (eb)

G.L. Green; 104 Pitshanger Lane;  Ealing, London W5 1QX; United
Kingdom (eb)

Department  B; Chevet  Books; 157  Dickson Road;  Blackpool FY1
2EU; United Kingdom (eb)

Mr. Reginald H.  Stone; Red Duster Books;  26 Acorn Avenue; Bar
Hill; Cambridge CB3 8DT; United Kingdom (eb)

Gerald Lee Martin Books; 73  Clayhall Avenue; Ilford, Essex IG5
0PN; United Kingdom (eb)

McLaren     Books;   91   West   Clyde   Street;   Helensburgh;
Dunbartonshire G84 8BB; United Kingdom (eb)

Seafarer  Books  and Crafts;  18  Market  Courtyard; Riverside,
Haverfordwest; Pembrokeshire; United Kingdom (eb)

Companies specializing in used and out-of-print books:

W.  Weigand  and  Co.;  PO Box  563;  Glastonbury  CT  O6033; [
Smaller, general list, periodic mailings. ] (eb)

Fisher  Nautical;  Huntswood House;  St.  Helena  Lane; Streat,
Hassocks; Sussex BN6 8SD; United Kingdom; [ Huge list, periodic
mailings. You  can ask  to be  placed on  the ``Yachting Only''
list. General list has the  most amazing stuff on it: Admiralty
reports, old  ships logs, sailor's  diaries, shipwreck reports,
and  on and  on.  Occasional curmudgeonly  newsletter  from the
proprietor. Very good at searching for specific books. ] (eb)

Columbia Trading Co.;  504 Main St.; W.  Barnstable MA 02668; [
Mid-sized list,  periodic mailings.  Seems more  attuned to the
serious bibliophile, e.g., pricey first editions. ] (eb)

The Nautical Mind,  [phone]. Bookstore  in Toronto. They
seem to have an  extensive set of titles  in stock. Good source
for  obtaining European  cruising guides  on  this side  of the
Atlantic. The  only bookstore  I could  find which  carried any
British canal guides.(al)

J. Tuttle Maritime Books; 1806  Laurel Crest; Madison WI 53705;
[ Smaller list, periodic mailings. ] (eb)

Diesel Engines:  Info about  Perkins deisels  is available from
Perkins  Group  of  Companies,  Eastfield,  Frank  Perkins Way,
Peterborough, PE1 5NA, England, Phone: [phone]


5.1.1 NMEA Specification for inter-electronic communication

The NMEA will sell you the specs or I will loan my copy to you.
(``I'' in  this remark is  [e-mail]) NMEA  phone number is
[phone]. (dk1)


5.1.2 Anchor Chain And Rode, Other Hardware

For the best prices on anchor  chain and anchor rode (e.g. 100'
1/2'' PC = 188.00) try SEA SPIKE ANCHORS, FARMINGDALE, NY (516)
249 2241

The Rigging Company,  in Portsmouth RI. 401  683 1525 They have
the best prices I've seen on rope and wire rigging, better than
the big discount houses. (em)


5.1.3 Navigation and Simulation Software and Equipment

Celestaire  sells a  few types  of  software. Their  address is
Celestaire, 416 S Pershing, Wichita, KS 67218, [phone].

They  also sell  aviation  and marine  navigation  eqpt.; their
catalog  is the  most  complete I've  seen  in this  area. High
prices, though.

Davis  Instruments, 3465  Diablo  Ave, Hayward,  CA  94545, USA
sells PC  Astro Navigator.  They also  sell sextants  and a few
other useful devices.

I   ([e-mail])   have  a  C   subroutine  package  that
implements (let the  user beware) the programs  that used to be
used  in the  HP41 Nav  Pac. These  include a  nautical almanac
program and a basic sight-reduction  software. This is the only
free  software  I know  of.  I  also have  a  variation  of the
``stars'' program  that uses the  Yale Star Catalog  to print a
start  chart,  customized to  any  day  of the  year,  from any
geographical   position,  at   any  time.  It   comes  with  no
documentation, though...

I have one which helps brush  up on the tactics of racing. It's
available from

Criteria instruments
7318 N. Leavitt Avenue
Portland, Oregon 97203-4840
phone [phone] fax [phone]
John P. Laurin
bbs 503-297-9073  1200/2400 baun 8,n,1.

(ps)

Software/hardware  for  getting  weather  faxes:  Crane  in San
Diego. For 119 you get the software, manual shortwave headphone
adapter, modulator for IBM compatible. 619 233 0223 (da)

OFS  WeathFAX,  6404  Lakerest Court,  Raleigh,  NC  27612, USA
(phone [phone]) sell a card  with software. It's 355 for
the  kit,  495  assembled.  Foreign  orders  add  14. Animation
software is  ``free''. The  half-length card  goes in  your PC,
accepting audio from your  receiver. It demodulates/displays HF
marine fax, along with satellite transmissions. Visa/Mastercard
accepted.(la)

Software  Systems  Consulting,  615  S.  El  Camino  Real,  San
Clemente,   CA   92672,  USA  (phone   [phone])  sell  a
demodulator with  software for 250.  The (external) demodulator
plugs into your PC serial port.(la)

MFJ Enterprises Inc, Box 494, Miss. State, MS 39762, USA (phone
1-323-5869, fax [phone]) have  the MFJ-1278 ``Multi Mode
Data Controller''. It  (with software) supports  RTTY, CW, SSTV
and  some other  modes,  along with  fax  of course.  It  is an
external unit and connects to your PC serial port. Last price I
saw was about 280. Software around 60.(la)

Ed Wallner's TIDES program is one of the simplest and best, and
it's shareware! Valid for as long as 200 years from now (albeit
with some loss of accuracy).  TIDES can be downloaded from many
bbs's, or: Edwin  P. Wallner; 32 Barney  Hill Road; Wayland, MA
01778-3602; 508-358-7938 (pk).

Other Tides programs:  tides202.zip is available  for awhile on
ftp.ais.org in pub/jon. I haven't checked the accuracy yet, but
it appears to do what I want. (jz)

More Software: More prorams are  available on the ship to shore
bbs. (jz)

Vancouver    BC 1-604-540-9596
Portland     OR 1-503-297-9073
Alameda      CA 1-510-365-8161
Redwood City CA 1-415-365-6384
Chicago      IL 1-708-670-7940
Arlington    VA 1-703-525-1458
NYC          NY 1-718-430-2410



5.2 Safe boating courses and organizations

The short  answer is:  The US Power  Squadron and  The US Coast
Guard Auxilliary. Here's how to find more:

You can find out about the safe boating courses in your area by
calling the nearest  Coast Guard station  and asking. It's best
to do this in  late Fall, since many  of the courses take place
during the winter and early Spring.

A beginning  handbook 'Start Sailing  Right' by  US Sailing and
the American Red Cross is available from US Sailing. US Sailing
also manages many  community sailing programs  and can probably
provide information about courses available in various parts of
the US. (sc)

BOAT/U.S. Courseline (800) 226-BOAT  in Virginia (800) 245-BOAT
Has  information about  upcoming Safety  Courses in  your area.
(dk1)

Coast   Guard   Boating  Safety  Hotline   (800)  368-5647  Has
information on  boat recalls and  defects. Also  you can report
your safety problems here. (dk1)


5.3 Should I get GPS or Loran?

GPS  appears  to  be  the  wave  of  the  future  in electronic
navigation.  Prices are  falling fast,  and  there are  now GPS
units   for  under  500.  Since   Loran  units  cost  over  300
(typically), the 500 GPS sounds  like a pretty good deal. Loran
has excellent repeatability (i.e., you can get back to the same
spot, within  about 100  yards), but  GPS has  greater accuracy
(the LAT/LON reading  is likely to  be closer to  where you are
than that of a LORAN).

If my Loran  gave out on  me, I would,  at this point, probably
replace it  with a GPS.  If I were  looking for a  cheap way to
navigate electronically, I'd  look for some  folks who just got
GPS and offer to  buy their Loran unit  cheap. It's worked fine
for a very long time, and there's nothing wrong with it.


5.4 What other newsgroups discuss boating stuff?

There is rec.boats and rec.boats.paddle. You might also want to
look at rec.woodworking.


5.5 What's the 800 number for the User Fee Sticker?

The 800 number  for the Coast  Guard User Fee  Sticker is 1-800
848-2100; have your Visa or MasterCard number ready.


5.6 What's it cost to own a boat?

Here is what I have posted previously about the costs of owning
Sarah, by 1970 Alberg 37  sloop. The items labelled ``startup''
are things  that I  knew I'd  need to  do when  I purchased the
boat, or that were  consequences of pre-existing problems (e.g.
a couple of substantial engine  repairs). There are a couple of
charges that others  may want to  rule out: the  bank charge is
for  an account  I  maintain just  for  Sarah, and  ``books and
magazines'' are  not directly related  to owning  the boat. The
list  also  includes a  bunch  of ``one  time''  expenses, like
repairing  the  injector  pump on  the  engine.  It  turns out,
though,  that there  are  *always* one-time  charges,  and it's
worth learning to expect them.

Note that  the list  below does  *not* include  the opportunity
cost  on the  investement in  the boat,  which was  34,000, and
hence could be  earning (at 6 percent  interest) about 2000 per
year.  Since  it's not  earning  that,  it's a  hidden  cost of
ownership. (jfh)


                               1992         1991       1990   change(91/92)
Startup (i.e. pre-existing probs)
ENGINE WORK-startup             30.77       73.77     1431.79    -43.00
Interior systems-startup                               365.86
Safety Equip-startup           105.69                   95.14   +105.69

Books and magazines            260.47       64.83               +195.64
DINGHY                         114.75      533.95      174.05   -419.20
Electronic Equip.              210.48      348.78      225.19   -138.30
Engine maintenance             632.12      374.07     1194.97   +258.05
Sailing Hardware                           246.95      229.27   -246.95
General Maintenance on Hull+Eq 458.87      617.96               -159.09
Insurance                      881.00      825.00      750.00    +56.00
Interior systems, exc elec+eng  63.47      165.21      490.51   -101.74
Miscellaneous expenses         200.00      306.03               -106.03
Moor'g,Haul'g,Storage, Anchor  830.28     1110.26     1886.08   -279.98
Not Categorized                -73.73       75.73        9.56   -149.46
Operating expenses              77.17      546.49      498.31   -469.32
Boat-related phone calls        10.00       97.98      416.80    -87.98
Rigging Replacement            198.74                           +198.74
Safety Equipt.                             226.57       18.14   -226.57
Sail repair and purchase       111.56      447.40               -335.84
Monthly Bank Charge             30.50       37.00       52.00     -6.50
Tools for boat                 191.84      216.63       30.00    -24.79
Yard Labor and Tax                                     180.00
                            ------------------------------------------
Total                         4333.98    6,314.61     8047.67  -1980.63

A few remarks: I've gotten  less diligent about recording which
phone calls  are boat  related. The  large engine  expense this
year is partly  due to having some  transmission work done. The
``mooring, etc.'' costs went down  only because I failed to pay
one bill before  the end of  1992. They'll go  up next year. So
will rigging replacement.

I now have further information about a couple of other boats:

Medium-sized powerboat  (as I  recall), used  a good  deal. The
``Access'' item may be ``accessories''---I cannot recall.


       Payment    Fuel  Repair   Maint  Access    Moor   Insur  TOTALS

March      $284    $251     $10    $343    $470    $120     $25  $1,503
April      $284    $262    $882    $240  $1,687    $120     $25  $3,500
May        $284    $218  $3,905     $18     $71    $120     $25  $4,641
June       $284    $384      $0      $8    $126    $120     $25    $947
July       $284    $838     $34      $4    $106    $120     $25  $1,411
Aug        $284     $94    $119     $39    $232    $145     $25    $938
Sept       $284    $395      $0      $3     $19    $145     $25    $871
Oct        $284      $0      $0     $18      $0    $145     $25    $472
Nov        $284     $92     $17      $0      $0    $145     $25    $563
Dec        $284    $141      $0      $0      $0    $145     $25    $595
Jan        $284      $0      $0     $55    $359    $145     $25    $868
Feb        $284    $335      $9    $371     $13    $145     $25  $1,182
   ------------------------------------------------------------------------